topic To infinity and nothing.... in Archive

To infinity and nothing....

mightymidget — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 09:43:34 GMT

I'd just to share with everyone my current BT experience and to express how disappointed I have been.

I am a business broadband customer and I have been looking forward to getting infinity. Originally it was planned to be in my area by 31 December, that date came and went... Then on the off chance a couple of weeks ago I decided to check again and wow I could get it and at full speed. I was straight on the phone to BT very happy that I could increase my speed! The installation data came; Openreach turned up at 8:00 and installed the required modem and faceplate in my house. I went off to work very happy that in the evening I would return to my super-fast fibre broadband. This is where it all went wrong.

Apparently my cabinet has a fault on it which needs a specialist engineer to fix. I have now been waiting for this for since Tuesday, and I have been ringing BT every day for an update and being told each time we will have more news at 4PM. No one seems to know what Is going on. Understandably I’m getting a bit frustrated and I feel a call to Virgin coming on.. they can offer me 100mb…

It seems the "race to infinity" has lead to slap dash work by BT

Re: To infinity and nothing....

kevinneal — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 09:46:20 GMT

You don't live in stamford do you? cos it sounds like I'm going through the same as you, was told a few days ago an engineer would be intouch, but heard nothing since

Re: To infinity and nothing....

MHC — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:26:54 GMT

Electronic systems can fail - even though tested before delivery and early service failure can occur.

Where I am, a Virgin cabinet was vandalised - it took two months for it to be fully repaired. So just think about that.

Re: To infinity and nothing....

nikkil — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 12:49:08 GMT

I have been working as a NOC and if a problem would take time to resolve it, we usually don't give updates to Level 1 representatives. (Until the problem is fixed).

Also, they always say, a serviceability check is really not 100% accurate until you have the service in your location. Just have faith on BT, be patient and see how this one turns out.

Re: To infinity and nothing....

spank — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 13:48:33 GMT

At this satge the only info BT will be able to give you is the engineers appointment time, until he has been no one will be any the wiser. I know it's frustrating. These fibre lines are being hooked up to copper lines and old equipment that was built for telephony, some installs will fail, some will sail through but nothing is guaranteed.

Re: To infinity and nothing....

mightymidget — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:33:05 GMT

Update!!

After waiting a week being told "we are waiting to hear back etc" I've been told that I will have to wait another week as there is a major fault on my cabinet with the connection to the exchange....

It begs the question, Does BT/Openreach test anything before they deploy it to customers???

Re: To infinity and nothing....

thecave — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:41:50 GMT

@mightymidget wrote:

Update!!

After waiting a week being told "we are waiting to hear back etc" I've been told that I will have to wait another week as there is a major fault on my cabinet with the connection to the exchange....

It begs the question, Does BT/Openreach test anything before they deploy it to customers???

When have you known BT to test anything? They blatantly went over budget and couldn't justify actually testing their infrastructure before selling it to the public. I think that pretty much says it all really.

And at any rate, it must be your fault - It always the customers fault, thats BT's position "have you changed your splitter? go away until you have"..

as for electronic systems failing before being live, thats true it COULD have failed, but what does that say about the quality of BT's equipment and service as a whole. I got my "infinity is in your area" letter recently - given posts like this, I think I'll be holding off, or at least, looking at a more established firbe service *cough*Virgin*cough*

Re: To infinity and nothing....

OldWolf — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 08:30:44 GMT

"And at any rate, it must be your fault - It always the customers fault, thats BT's position "have you changed your splitter? go away until you have".."

Do you realise just how many problems are actually fixed by basic self diagnostics? Do you realise how much money would be spent on trying to fix problems if these basic diagnostics weren't carried out.

Jonesy tells me that BT have started charging £149 plus VAT for an engineer visit and it turns out it was something internal. (Happened to him, the dozy git. I warned him) So what would you prefer? Ten minutes or so of checking stuff to make sure the basics are fine, or a hefty charge for an engineer?

If everyone actually did a little bit of checking first, and this is not just with BT but in all walks of life and tech, then there would a sodding sight less phone calls to technical helpdesks all over the world, which would then give the helpdesks more time and space to help fix people with ACTUAL PROBLEMS!!

/sigh

Dave A

Re: To infinity and nothing....

thecave — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:32:04 GMT

@OldWolf wrote:
Do you realise just how many problems are actually fixed by basic self diagnostics? Do you realise how much money would be spent on trying to fix problems if these basic diagnostics weren't carried out.

I do yes - given that some people can't even work out how to use a computer, do you really expect them to turn into a Support Technician just because they have ADSL at home? I'm sure BT asked themselves the same question.

Moreover just because you have a computer, does that mean you know how to build one, image it, diagnose faults etc? No.

I would imagine (not being an ISP myself, but using reasonable logic), BT would have figured the costs of supporting the "non tech savvy" customer into their service costs and as such, built their product pricing around that - Thats what I would do, anyway.

Perhaps their recent introduction of "£XX if its your fault" goes some way in to demonstrating my point - The costs have now increased OR their profit margin has been reduced (I favour the latter given that this is about BT)

I had ADSL shortly after BT released it (which seems like a considerable while back now), and given my experiences as an ADSL end user (INCLUDING other ADSL resellers), they're all too interested in the splitter or the master socket and you can forget them actually testing ANYTHING until you've done either of those things... which was what I was alluding to. It isn't always those things, its just as likely to be the routers they shove down your throats.

Anyway, this particular discussion is bringing us off topic..... Infinity doesn't seem to be happening for MightyMidget - which is a shame (for him and others in his area who are considering the service).

The point really is, before releasing a new service, you usually find rigorous testing has been carried out, not just a ping test to Google (or whatever they say they did), but in this case that step seems to have been omitted in favour of creaming wedge from the public.

If you did that as a small business owner - you'd run out of customers pretty quick.

MM - You hanging about or looking for other service providors?

Re: To infinity and nothing....

OldWolf — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 09:47:00 GMT

Hi,

And surprisingly most companies that have websites often have a bit called 'HELP AND SUPPORT'.

Yes there are people out there who turn into quivering wrecks whenever the word 'computer' is used, but in my 20+ years on the subject I've found that they tend to be the exception rather than the rule.

And with regard to your point about BT charging. What do you expect? Would you as a business person like it if one of your customers came to you and said 'I don't want to do this. I want you to come out to me and fix this without any idea of what is going on, and I want you to do it for free. Oh and I'll make sure that my direct debit for £15 gets paid next month.'

The problem with the world right now is that everyone expects everything for nothing. Can you imagine if companies actually started charging you for ALL technical support? How would you feel about self diagnostics then? I bet you would be breaking your back to make absolutely sure everything was perfect at your end before even picking up the phone.

And...

"they're all too interested in the splitter or the master socket and you can forget them actually testing ANYTHING until you've done either of those things... which was what I was alluding to. It isn't always those things, its just as likely to be the routers they shove down your throats.!"

I return to my original point, which while you claim to have understood it, you simply ignore it and carry on with this nonsense. With broadband the master socket is the single point of contact, and the microfilter is the first item plugged into that point. They are the biggest points of failure and primary points of testing in any scenario. Excuse them for making 100% sure they are sorted before moving on to anything else.

"The point really is, before releasing a new service, you usually find rigorous testing has been carried out, not just a ping test to Google "

As I said in another post this morning - everything breaks or fails, so this is mostly invalid. Believe otherwise then more fool you.

/sigh

Dave A

Re: To infinity and nothing....

thecave — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 10:21:57 GMT

As for what I expect from BT - I expect them to do the calculations add their margin and arrive at a price - whatever the price comes out at is the price. If "Consumer A" doesn't want to pay it, well then they can get their service elsewhere.

As for your original point about the master socket/splitter - I did understand, no I didn't ignore it - I'm still entitled to MY opinion that there are OTHER POINTS OF FAILURE, whether you agree with that or not, I really couldnt care less. IN MY EXPERIENCE its only ever been once that the splitter was the problem. you can make of that what you will - but either I got the best made splitters in the world with every router I've ever bought, or its just as likely to be <something else>.

"The point really is, before releasing a new service, you usually find rigorous testing has been carried out, not just a ping test to Google "

As I said in another post this morning - everything breaks or fails, so this is mostly invalid. Believe otherwise then more fool you.

Yeah more fool me for testing the services I offer my customers actually work..... yeah. You sure you don't work for BT? you seem to think just like them.

I should use this sentiment to my customers and see how far it gets me...

Re: To infinity and nothing....

OldWolf — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 10:58:50 GMT

"Yeah more fool me for testing the services I offer my customers actually work..... yeah. You sure you don't work for BT? you seem to think just like them.

I should use this sentiment to my customers and see how far it gets me..."

To be honest I think that statement is rather disnegenuous to BT, or any other company it might have been directed at. No amount of testing on the planet would stop future failure. Ever. There is no system in existence that will not at some point fail. And no amount of limited testing can find every flaw in every scenario.

Even Microsoft, who are world renowned for using their customer base as public beta testers, do at least some testing in house. BT I have no doubt are the same.

Anyone who shouts about 100% uptime simply has enough backups in place to remove the possibility that every single one could simultaneously fail. So unless the giant space rock hits the planet and wipes out the entire stinking mudball then it is possible to be close enough to 100% in that case for it to be irrelevant.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinions. I simply think that they are based upon a need to hate upon any company who doesn't give you exactly what you want without flaw for a price that equates to as close to zero as possible.

I hate when things break. I get annoyed. But I also realise the reality of the situation with regards to the provision, supply and repair of things.

I also believe that of EVERYTHING, and not just BT. It just so happens that it's on a BT forum.

Have a nice day, at least till the giant space rock anyway.

Dave A

Re: To infinity and nothing....

markp — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 11:08:08 GMT

Hi All,

This thread is now going off topic, I am closing this thread down, I can understand you all have greivences about BT using this forum is not the way to get your issues raised, please follow our correct escalation path and raise your issues through the correct helpdesks.

Regards

MarkP

BT Business Forum Moderator