Difference between Microsoft Office 365 and Business Email Lite

[Midgebait]

Can someone please explain in simple terms what Business Email Lite is and what you get as part of that package. 

THe only page I can see on the support pages says Office 365 looks like this and lite looks like that.

I think I understand that The Office 365 for small business seems to be a fully web enabled cloud based system.  Which needs connected to the internet all the time to opertate.

I don't think I want or need that, but cannot locate a lit of facilities offered by "lite" to decide if it is too basic.  For example does "lite" allow me to set out of office? or is it just a call up and download "pop" system?

Cheers

[reetp]

Same companies, same spyware, same <A star doesn't stop it from being swearing - DaveA>.

Business Lite is just the cutdown version of the full Office 365 system. It basically just gives you an email address, and is used by M$ as a way to try and get you to take up the full on paid for Office 365 (kind of equivalent to Gmail + Google Docs)

Effectively BT have palmed the whole email system off to M$.

With the 'Lite' version, regarding connection, as a user nothing will change apart from your account settings. You can get to logon and pick up email as and when. The only time connectivity is an issue is if you use the full version to get documents etc etc. - guess there must be an 'offline' mode.

If you only access your emails via POP/SMTP then there will be few differences apart from SSL, and it's slow. And it will remove whatever mails it considers you don't want. Their choice, not yours.....

If you use the webmail system then you get a slightly different interface from the current version. It's the normal cutdown version of Exchange Online. What is a amazing is that it would appear that M$ normally charge about USD10 per user per month normally for this. Must be a helluva backhander passed back there someplace. I guess they will make their money by scouring your email (like BT has) and using that information to sell someone some more stuff someplace.

Cynical ? I would be. M$ don't so anything for nothing. And BT are not charging you any more..... so there must be money to be made someplace.

Me ? I don't need or trust M$ or Google any more than BT, and am moving all my email off their services to my own systems where they can't get to them so easily, though I believe that BT (and many other ISPs) scan ALL your internet traffic for their own purposes without your permission. The trouble is proving that they do.....

[DaveA]

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@reetp wrote:

Same companies, same spyware, same <A star doesn't stop it from being swearing - DaveA>.

Business Lite is just the cutdown version of the full Office 365 system. It basically just gives you an email address, and is used by M$ as a way to try and get you to take up the full on paid for Office 365 (kind of equivalent to Gmail + Google Docs)

Effectively BT have palmed the whole email system off to M$.

With the 'Lite' version, regarding connection, as a user nothing will change apart from your account settings. You can get to logon and pick up email as and when. The only time connectivity is an issue is if you use the full version to get documents etc etc. - guess there must be an 'offline' mode.

If you only access your emails via POP/SMTP then there will be few differences apart from SSL, and it's slow. And it will remove whatever mails it considers you don't want. Their choice, not yours.....

If you use the webmail system then you get a slightly different interface from the current version. It's the normal cutdown version of Exchange Online. What is a amazing is that it would appear that M$ normally charge about USD10 per user per month normally for this. Must be a helluva backhander passed back there someplace. I guess they will make their money by scouring your email (like BT has) and using that information to sell someone some more stuff someplace.

Cynical ? I would be. M$ don't so anything for nothing. And BT are not charging you any more..... so there must be money to be made someplace.

Me ? I don't need or trust M$ or Google any more than BT, and am moving all my email off their services to my own systems where they can't get to them so easily, though I believe that BT (and many other ISPs) scan ALL your internet traffic for their own purposes without your permission. The trouble is proving that they do.....

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Hi,

Right your homework for the weekend is to post up evidence to back up all the accusations you've made in this post.  If you don't then it gets deleted on Monday when I come in.

I'm fed up with people posting opinionated rants without anything to give it ground to stand on.

Don't like Microsoft?  Fine.  Don't like BT?  Fine.  But if you're going to make comments like the above then you better be prepared with something to even half prove it.

Dave

[reetp]

>Right your homework for the weekend is to post up evidence to back up all the accusations you've made in this post.  If you don't then it gets deleted on Monday when I come in.

Don't work a full week then ? Easy life. Oh well, it'll be here for a day or two for people to read. Deleted Monday ? If it hadn't have been for the last remark I'd have not replied but I never respond well to bullies. So I had a quick 3 minute read around and here's the results. Want any more ?

M$ trying to get you to upgrade ? You ought to read your own website. I'm sure my mail box will be full of 'offers' to upgrade before long :

See here :

http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/18557/c/2048,3872,3882

and the link here :

http://business.bt.com/domains-and-hosting/office-365/

Looking at your data ? As I said, it's VERY difficult to prove, as you well know. But it doesn't make me wrong. The BT Phorm mess was proof enough that they want to see what you are up too. They are corporations that want to make cash to pay their shareholders.

Anyway, have a read here :

http://www.wired.com/business/2012/08/how-microsoft-will-profit-off-webmail-without-reading-your-inb...

"In response to questions from Wired on Wednesday, Microsoft did not elaborate on the specifics of how it deploys ads in Outlook.com. In her review Tuesday, Wired Gadgetlab reporter Alexandra Chang said the ads still seemed somewhat tailored to her: “When I was using Outlook.com, a bunch of gadget deals and one flower ad appeared, which seemed pretty accurate to my digital profile.” Bruce Hall, general manager of Windows Live and Internet Explorer, told her Outlook.com would rely on its newsletter filter, which grays out mailing-list messages you likely never read, to engage in some modest ad-targeting based on the newsletter’s sender."

And this :

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/07/hands-on-with-microsoft-outlook-com/

Now, I grant you that the current offering via BT doesn't appear to show any ads (I don't use it but had a quick login to see). But it doesn't mean that mails aren't read. And doesn't mean the data won't get used in one way or another. Or that we won't get ads later in one shape or form. (How come my old junk hotmail test account was full of junk despite the fact that I never gave out the address ???)

Then look at things such as browser Search plugins, 'handy' desktop 'help' systems et al. And they dont take ANY data from you ??? Sorry, but unfortunately I wasn't born yesterday. EVERYONE is at it. The ironic thing is that the government would LOVE access to the same data, but can't get it. But the coporations take it without a by your leave in most cases, sell it for profit, and you have NO right to do anything about it. Can't vote them out.

Would YOU like to advise us all how BT can afford to palm off all it's email to Microsoft without anyone paying ???? Just smell the money and you will find the reasons behind moves like this.

>I'm fed up with people posting opinionated rants without anything to give it ground to stand on.

Get over it. The company you work for are a complete bunch of amateurs. If I treated my customers the same way, I'd be out of business in 5 minutes. Fact. If they provided some decent customer service, then maybe we wouldn't be 'ranting' here (bearing in mind there isn't really anywhere else where we can publicly decry them that might get noticed by them). If it wasn't for losing a whole pile of my (costly) time with a changeover that wasn't wanted or needed which was poorly implemented and poorly supported, then I wouldn't have had reason to complain, would I ?

And being told I CAN'T complain just adds insult to injury.

>Don't like Microsoft?  Fine.  Don't like BT?  Fine.  But if you're going to make comments like the above then you better be prepared with something to even half prove it.

No I don't like either of them. I can avoid M$ but regrettably at the minute BT is my only option as a provider.

So I'll ask YOU again. How is BT affording to pay M$ bearing in mind that the normal cost for a basic account 'Office 365' account is around USD10 a month (or whatever they charge over here). My bill hasn't gone up, and nothing is for free.

So either BT are paying M$ and have a methiod of getting that money back, or M$ are doing it for free and using the data for their own purposes.

Or have you got another explanation ?

[reetp]

Whilst some of us swanned off early, I thought I'd do my home work tonight.

Now here's your for next week. First, go read this :

http://www2.bt.com/static/i/btretail/panretail/terms/bt1159.htm

Specifically :

http://www2.bt.com/static/i/btretail/panretail/terms/pdfs/bt1159.pdf

Not easy to find, I grant you. But then these things never are. There are more dud PDFs and red herrings than you can shake a stick at.

5.11
Neither BT nor its licensors will monitor the Customer‟s use of the Service or track, view, censor, edit, remove or disclose Customer Information that is processed or accessed by the Service except to:
(a) provide, operate, and improve the Service and other products and services including Microsoft products and services

They can use that to cover most eventualities. It means they can, which means WILL, read what they like before they decide how best to use the information. No permission from us required cos you agreed to the contract without even seeing it.

Now interestingly in the Service Description (all the main details of what you can send/limits et al are there) is a URL which, quite typically, doesn't work :

1.3 The features are as specified at http://business.bt.com/broadband-and-internet/internet-communication/business-
email/ (or any other url that BT advises to the Customer).

Well, it does, sort of, but guess where it takes you ?

http://business.bt.com/domains-and-hosting/office-365/

More than just email...

from £4 .50 user/month ex VAT

• Full email, calendar, contacts and tasks
• Push email to your mobile, Blackberry or iPhone
• Web conferencing, share files online, edit files on the go

ROFLMAO. So they aren't selling anything then ?

Now the difficult bit is that the BT terms say that you have to refer on to the terms of M$ but they aren't exactly easy to find.

The best I can come up with that possibly covers it is this :

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-live/microsoft-services-agreement

1.1. What services are covered by this agreement? This agreement applies to Microsoft Hotmail, Microsoft SkyDrive, Microsoft account, Windows Live Messenger, Windows Photo Gallery, Windows Movie Maker, Microsoft Mail Desktop, Windows Live Writer (the foregoing are collectively referred to as the "Microsoft branded services"), Bing, MSN, Office.com, and any other software, website, or service that links to this agreement (collectively the "services").

Well, that covers just about every M$ product then.

2.3. What if I obtained my Microsoft account from someone other than Microsoft? In some cases, we allow you to obtain your Microsoft account through a third party, like a school, a business, an Internet service provider, or the administrator of a managed domain (http://www.domains.live.com). In such cases, that third party may have additional rights over your Microsoft account, like the ability to reset your password, view your account usage or profile data, read or store content in your account, or suspend or cancel your Microsoft account. In these cases, you are subject to this agreement and any additional terms of use from that third party, which should be made available to you by such third party. If you are the administrator of the managed domain, you are responsible for all activity that takes place within the accounts on the managed domain.

That covers BT again then.

3.3. What does Microsoft do with my content? When you upload your content to the services, you agree that it may be used, modified, adapted, saved, reproduced, distributed, and displayed to the extent necessary to protect you and to provide, protect and improve Microsoft products and services. For example, we may occasionally use automated means to isolate information from email, chats, or photos in order to help detect and protect against spam and malware, or to improve the services with new features that makes them easier to use. When processing your content, Microsoft takes steps to help preserve your privacy.

So basically they can do anything they like with it.

5.2. Does Microsoft disclose my personal information outside of Microsoft? You consent and agree that Microsoft may access, disclose, or preserve information associated with your use of the services, including (without limitation) your personal information and content, or information that Microsoft acquires about you through your use of the services (such as IP address or other third-party information) when Microsoft forms a good faith belief that doing so is necessary (a) to comply with applicable law or to respond to legal process from competent authorities; (b) to enforce this agreement or protect the rights or property of Microsoft or our customers; or (c) to help prevent a loss of life or serious physical injury to anyone.

Interesting as it refers to 'personal information'. I didn't spend long enough studying law at university to be able to figure the ramifications of the commas etc in this lot. However, there is nothing to say they will not use 'non personally identifiable information' which is a big market.

The upshot is that there is nothing to stop them taking and using your data as they see fit. They often wriggle around it by saying they can't identify you specifically, but it doesn't change what they are doing. Everyone is at it. you can see it's like a shark feeding frenzy out there, unless you are blind or stupid.

I think your readers can be the judge from here on in what they think.

P.S.

How about this

http://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/default.mspx

Use what they whenever they like..........

[Stephenc]

Hi there,

I'm sure Dave will post up and comment further, but I figured I'd try and make some sense of this.

"M$ trying to get you to upgrade ? You ought to read your own website. I'm sure my mail box will be full of 'offers' to upgrade before long :"

Noones arguing there's an upgrade going through, infact its what the initial question this form was about, every BT customer is being upgraded, but we're not suggesting that people upgrade to the preium product, the emails are not an offer, they are a warming of when the email will go ahead, and how to update settings.

"Now, I grant you that the current offering via BT doesn't appear to show any ads (I don't use it but had a quick login to see). But it doesn't mean that mails aren't read. And doesn't mean the data won't get used in one way or another. Or that we won't get ads later in one shape or form. (How come my old junk hotmail test account was full of junk despite the fact that I never gave out the address ???)"

From the links you yourself provided, it advises, "Microsoft says that it doesn’t scan your email to determine its ads".

I'd further add to this on a purely personal note, my current hotmail address has been active since 2008, I haven't recieved much spam at all possibly one or two messages, but I have a seperate email address purely for signing up for services that may result in offers being sent out.

"But the coporations take it without a by your leave in most cases, sell it for profit, and you have NO right to do anything about it. Can't vote them out."

In this case you do have a right, if you want a service from any company, not just BT, not just Microsoft.  You agree to their terms, if you don't want the service, don't take it out.  That's the choice, its the same with any service.

"Would YOU like to advise us all how BT can afford to palm off all it's email to Microsoft without anyone paying ???? Just smell the money and you will find the reasons behind moves like this."

The email on the old platform was also free, most other providers also provide free email addresses, with broadband packages, its fairly standard.

"If it wasn't for losing a whole pile of my (costly) time with a changeover that wasn't wanted or needed which was poorly implemented and poorly supported, then I wouldn't have had reason to complain, would I ?"

The old service was largely outdated and had various issues, these issues have been resolved with the new platform. The service is supported fine, the implentation has had some issues, but the vast majority of them are mail client configuration.

You haven't posted anything we can help with here as Dave said, this is a "rant" you haven't even mentioned the problem you have had, there is no constructive information I can respond with because I have no idea what the issue you experienced was.  If you detail this, it can more than likely be resolved.

"So I'll ask YOU again. How is BT affording to pay M$ bearing in mind that the normal cost for a basic account 'Office 365' account is around USD10 a month"

I'd doublecheck the pricing on that a premium user is only £4.50 from Microsoft, even with currency conversion its not quite that expensive.

Does it really matter anyway?  The costs aren't being incurred by yourselves.

BT did / or are paying Microsoft for it, the amount I have no idea.

Thanks,

Steve

[DaveA]

Hi reetp,

For the record I have absolutely no objection to complaints being made, as long as they aren't rants.

I do however have objection to unsubstantiated accusations being made about anything or anyone, which much of your orignal post contained.

You have, however, done some work and posted something up to back up what you've said.  Whether I believe it or not is irrelevant.

A+

Dave

[TheDude]

The below, did nothing to help those with simple minds.

My business has one BT organise plus and share exchange account and all other employees have btconnect.com lite email accounts to work email aliases. Our website and domain is held with BT. Employees today received the  BT email warning of the MS 365 upgrade and so I called BT. I was advised that when the changes occur to our account, on 31/01/13, we should call BT and they will remotely upgrade our business email accounts. I mentioned my understanding that the upgrade per business email address was only free for six months and asked for clarification if BT wanted £4.** per month per employee and BT said it was free, forever. BT also advised me I could upgrade to 365 myself via MY BT business account but again, the only option was to upgrade the lite business email addresses, free for six months only.

The BT website highlights that their business clients cannot operate a mixture of a organise plus and share exchange with lite email domains. Can anyone provide any clarification and why are existing BT customers being asked to pay for lite licences and will this apply to my firm?

Thanks

The Dude

[reetp]

At the end of the day it's because BT see businesses as a cash cow and expect them to pay more.

As I said above, it's all about making more profit. They have never liked businesses hiding lots of users behind routers. Several years ago their terms used to specifically forbid it.

So this is all part of the push to flush you out into the open and make you pay more.

Our decision was to get rid of all of their awful services, and do it ourselves.

Please note that if you run your own server, each client now has to authenticate individually with their email address againt the SMTP smarthost. That effectively cuts any linux boxes out of the equation if they gather up mail for forwarding to the smarthost. Strange that eh ? I am not sure how Windoze boxes handle it, but I guess M$ have that covered (though I could be wrong).

There has been no thought given to the fact that many businesses do not want to use webmail or M$ products, and want to run their own software and systems. It is disgraceful and outrageous. Sorry, I stand corrected on that. Yes they DID think about it, and didn't want to give people a choice.

I *could* host my own mail server off the static IP that I have. However, despite it being called a 'business' IP, it is in a residential block/range and gets hammered by black lists, even though we have never spammed in our history. Easy way to prevent you running your own server again I guess.

They have also stated that they get a lot of spammers using their accounts and want to stop this. Easy. Enforce better passwords and clamp down on accounts that spam. Their password policy has always been very lax and they could have tightened it up.

Need I go on ?

>I was advised that when the changes occur to our account, on 31/01/13

The very best of luck. You will probably need it. Tales of woe are legendary already. my own suggestion is take your business elsewhere.

B. Rgds

John

[washking]

my company email has just been "upgraded" and after a few hours of messing around I discover that I can no longer forward emails using the web app inbox rules are no longer available. I used to forward certain emails to other BT mailboxes so my mobile workers would all be able to collect them. I needed to do this because 1) the free storage from BT was too small to keep the data and 2) my guys have Nokia smart phones and Nokia messaging  only allows one mobile to connect to each mailbox. This problem was not BT's fault just one of those annoying thing you find out after you change any service provider these days. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the people who sell you stuff know so little about what they are selling they cant advise you on the problems you will hit. So now we have been upgraded we have lost the ability to change the inbox rules, as part of the housekeeping I deleted some mailboxes so the old rule forwarded to those which generated a non delivery notification - so I think I  cant change the rule maybe because it was generated in an old version of WebOutlook so deleted it and tried to create a new one - cant be done. I have used BT for emails since dial up was the latest thing , BT has my web site, domain registrations, broadband accounts and I have just been upgraded to a product which has less funtionality and no one I speak to on the various help desks sales desks upgrade centres et al can tell me what I am paying for on my Internet Business Pack and whether or not it should qualifiy me for an upgrade to M$ Office 365 for small business and if it did whether or not I would be able to forward emails from the web based application. The only advice I got was to use my PC to do it - crazy