Help Interleaving

[Darryl87]

Hi ok,

For the past 10 years with several providers i have acheived between 10-15ms with Fast path, I started my service on the 3rd Febuary and was acheiving 12ms last hop to bbc.co.uk. A trace from my previous provider,

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    10 ms    10 ms    10 ms  188.39.0.30
  3     9 ms    10 ms    10 ms  gi1-8.the.dist.dsl.enta.net [188.39.0.29]
  4    10 ms    10 ms    10 ms  te2-2.telehouse-east3.dsl.enta.net [78.33.141.81
]
  5    24 ms    10 ms    10 ms  te5-2.telehouse-east.core.enta.net [62.249.192.1
21]
  6    10 ms    10 ms    10 ms  te5-1.telehouse-east2.core.enta.net [87.127.236.
98]
  7     9 ms    10 ms    10 ms  212.58.238.177
  8    10 ms    10 ms     9 ms  212.58.238.153
  9    10 ms    10 ms    10 ms  virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.138]

A few days later the interleaving got kicked on and i was told to wait 10 days for the training period to stop to remove it, So i waited and on the 14th i then asked for it to be removed... And eventually they told me they sent an order to get it removed.

48 hours later i am still seeing the increased ping from the interleaving and have been told it has been removed from my line, Below are stats showing that interleaving is still on.

Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason:    8000
Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 960 Kbps, Downstream rate = 7296 Kbps
Mode:            G.DMT
Channel:        Interleave
Trellis:        ON
Line Status:        No Defect
Training Status:    Showtime
        Down        Up
SNR (dB):    6.6        7.0
Attn(dB):    43.0        26.5
Pwr(dBm):    19.8        12.7
Max(Kbps):    7872        1136
Rate (Kbps):    7296        960
            G.dmt framing
K:        229(0)        31
R:        16        8
S:        1        4
😧        32        4
            ADSL2 framing
MSGc:        59        10
B:        120        46
M:        1        4
T:        2        3
R:        10        4
S:        0.4962        5.9076
L:        2112        260
😧        64        4
            Counters
SF:        4837        4777
SFErr:        0        0
RS:        328946        81209
RSCorr:        80        0
RSUnCorr:    0        0

HEC:        0        0
OCD:        0        0
LCD:        0        0
Total Cells:    1415545        0
Data Cells:    542        0
Drop Cells:    0
Bit Errors:    0        0

ES:        3        0
SES:        0        0
UAS:        96        0
AS:        83

INP:        1.21        0.24
PER:        16.12        17.72
delay:        7.93        5.90
OR:        32.24        7.22

Bitswap:    0        0

Strange enough i thought id try adsl2+ mode out to test so i did...

Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason:    8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 1011 Kbps, Downstream rate = 7770 Kbps
Mode:            ADSL2+
Channel:        Fast
Trellis:        U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:        No Defect
Training Status:    Showtime

I am currently connected with adsl2+ and i am seeing,

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.138]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  217.32.141.34
  3    21 ms    21 ms    22 ms  217.32.141.62
  4    22 ms    22 ms    21 ms  213.120.161.50
  5    22 ms    22 ms    22 ms  217.41.222.50
  6    22 ms    21 ms    22 ms  217.41.222.182
  7    22 ms    22 ms    21 ms  acc2-10GigE-0-0-0-4.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.
248.194]
  8    28 ms    28 ms    27 ms  core1-te-0-2-5-0.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.2
48.128]
  9    27 ms    27 ms    27 ms  core1-pos9-1.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [194.74.65.
114]
 10   228 ms   223 ms   219 ms  194.74.65.42
 11    27 ms    28 ms    27 ms  212.58.238.153
 12    28 ms    27 ms    27 ms  virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.138]

The trace from g.dmt currently shows,

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    13 ms    13 ms    12 ms  217.32.141.34
  3    14 ms    13 ms    14 ms  217.32.141.62
  4    15 ms    15 ms    15 ms  213.120.161.50
  5    15 ms    15 ms    15 ms  217.41.222.46
  6    16 ms    15 ms    15 ms  217.41.222.182
  7    16 ms    15 ms    16 ms  acc2-10GigE-0-7-0-4.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.
248.198]
  8    21 ms    20 ms    20 ms  core1-te-0-13-0-4.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.
248.136]
  9    21 ms    21 ms    20 ms  core1-pos9-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [62.6.201.1
18]
 10    21 ms    21 ms    21 ms  194.74.65.42
 11    20 ms    21 ms    21 ms  212.58.238.129
 12    20 ms    20 ms    20 ms  virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.138]

When i first started the service these pings were -10ms as what they are now, Im running around in circles what am i supposed to do, My end still showing interleaving but they say its off and are now blaming me?

More stats from the modem,


System Status                            System Uptime: 23:5:24
Primary    Secondary    
LAN Status                            Primary DNS:     195.74.113.58    Secondary DNS:     195.74.113.62
  IP Address    TX Packets    RX Packets            
  192.168.2.1    1138827        1145082            
WAN 1 Status    
  Enable    Line    Name    Mode    Up Time    
  Yes        SDSLADSLEthernet        PPPoA    00:00:00    
  IP    GW IP    TX Packets    TX Rate(Bps)    RX Packets    RX Rate(Bps)
  ---    ---             0                  0                 0                    0
Message [ PPP Shutdown ]
WAN 2 Status
  Enable    Line    Name    Mode    Up Time    
  Yes        Ethernet        ---    00:00:00    
  IP        GW IP    TX Packets    TX Rate(Bps)    RX Packets    RX Rate(Bps)
  ---    ---                     0             0                     0                0
SDSLADSL Information       ( SDSLADSL Firmware Version:  332201_A)
  ATM Statistics    TX Cells           RX Cells    TX CRC errs    RX CRC errs
                          246594        33206010    203              150
  SDSLADSL Status    Mode    State    Up Speed    Down Speed    SNR Margin    Loop Att.
      G.DMT        SHOWTIME    1152000        6912000        6        42

Am i right in thinking if it was off then i wont see the errors above? Since interleaving is error correcting and if it was indeed off then these would show as 0 as they did with my last provider...

System Status        System Uptime: 498:11:2
Primary    Secondary    
LAN Status    Primary DNS:     194.74.65.69    Secondary DNS:     74.82.42.42
  IP Address    TX Packets    RX Packets            
  192.168.2.1    16478663    11423677            
WAN 1 Status    
  Enable    Line    Name    Mode    Up Time    
  Yes    SDSLADSLEthernet        PPPoA    00:00:00    
  IP    GW IP    TX Packets    TX Rate(Bps)    RX Packets    RX Rate(Bps)
  ---    ---                0                   0                 0                0
Message [ PPP Shutdown ]
WAN 2 Status
  Enable    Line    Name    Mode    Up Time    
  Yes    Ethernet        ---    00:00:00    
  IP    GW IP    TX Packets    TX Rate(Bps)    RX Packets    RX Rate(Bps)
  ---    ---               0               0                    0                    0
SDSLADSL Information       ( SDSLADSL Firmware Version:  332201_A)
  ATM Statistics    TX Cells    RX Cells        TX CRC errs    RX CRC errs
                         9521188    301313422    0                 0
  SDSLADSL Status    Mode    State    Up Speed    Down Speed    SNR Margin    Loop Att.
      G.DMT    SHOWTIME    896000    6304000    8    44

Sorry for the long post but im getting really frustrated trying to resolve this and im not getting anywhere, I appreciate your replies and any advice given.

Regards
Darryl Williams

[a-hill]

All indications when testing did actually appear to show that interleaving was disabled. I'm having them ensure that it's disabled across the system... again this is potentially this afternoon.

[Darryl87]

You know when you reconnect the internet, Like i said previously the ping sometimes is 5ms higher or lower, Would it not be possible to connect to a certain one that provides the best instead of it being random?

Also does the Home BT broadband provide better pings than the Business? Ive been told that its LLU and the Business isnt?

Cheers
Darryl

[a-hill]

I'm guessing you're referring to IP. An IP is an IP, there's no fast or slow ones... they all do the same job. You also have to remember that response time to servers is also down to the servers themselves, the route to them can also change, and so could their response time... you're only as fast as your slowest hop. I can only assume this is online gaming related?

[Darryl87]

For example when i trace bbc.co.uk sometimes the end hop will be 20 other times it was 25 and when it was 20 throughout the trace was also 5 lower so i was on a faster route would it not be possible to always have the same route?

Also about the Home question what about that? My mate who lives local gets 3-4 lower on it so i guess that would apply to me as well?

Cheers
Darryl

[a-hill]

It's all completely ISP dependant, I couldn't comment on the residential side. But 3 to 4ms is practically unnoticeable, especially with regards to online gaming. With a traceroute, we only take you so far before you're set loose and it's up to the net/DNS, servers etc to get you to the right place. It's all a case of load balancing etc, there's no way we can set a connection to take the exact same route every time as we simply don't have the power to do so. Again I'm just assuming this is online gaming related, if it is, is it PC gaming or console?

[Darryl87]

Yes online and for the PC ive had 10 before with other providers so i know it is possible to get it, Can you not do anything else to get it lower, Or can i do anything?

Cheers
Darryl

[a-hill]

Beyond ensuring interleaving is disabled, there isn't really much that can be done by either of us. I've had similar issues with increased ping in the likes of Quake Live, that was due to the game going from beta to full release, and the increased player count via the master server was pushing it up slightly. They had moved to larger servers which meant slightly more overheads, wasn't really anything any of us could do.

[Darryl87]

Ok its finally turned off, But as i trace the server that i go in look below.

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2     5 ms     5 ms     4 ms  217.32.141.34
  3     6 ms     6 ms     6 ms  217.32.141.62
  4     8 ms     8 ms     7 ms  213.120.161.50
  5     7 ms     7 ms     7 ms  217.41.222.62
  6     7 ms     8 ms     8 ms  217.41.222.182
  7     7 ms     7 ms     8 ms  acc2-10GigE-0-1-0-5.bm.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.
248.218]
  8    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  core2-te-0-13-0-4.ealing.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.
248.138]
  9    23 ms    12 ms    12 ms  core1-xe10-1-0.redbus.ukcore.bt.net [62.6.200.89
]
 10    13 ms    13 ms    13 ms  te8-4.core1.thn.as20860.net [195.66.224.207]
 11    14 ms    22 ms    14 ms  62-233-127-174.as20860.net [62.233.127.174]
 12    14 ms    14 ms    14 ms  service8697.lrc-networks.co.uk [78.129.197.65]

Usually on my old provider it doesnt jump up so much like this, Ive also noticed that they start very low where my friend local to me has the same number throughout where mine starts low and slowly rises.

I usually start with 10 and end with it like he does, So i guess if i went to the home broadband i would be the same since they use different systems? Would it be possible for you to find out for me mate?

Cheers
Darryl

[Darryl87]

My old provider produced these pings morning to night didnt matter, Still used a BT line wasnt llu or anything.

1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    10 ms    10 ms    10 ms  188.39.0.30
  3     9 ms    10 ms    10 ms  gi1-8.the.dist.dsl.enta.net [188.39.0.29]
  4    10 ms    10 ms    10 ms  te2-2.telehouse-east3.dsl.enta.net [78.33.141.81
]
  5    24 ms    10 ms    10 ms  te5-2.telehouse-east.core.enta.net [62.249.192.1
21]
  6    10 ms    10 ms    10 ms  te5-1.telehouse-east2.core.enta.net [87.127.236.
98]
  7     9 ms    10 ms    10 ms  212.58.238.177
  8    10 ms    10 ms     9 ms  212.58.238.153
  9    10 ms    10 ms    10 ms  virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.138]

[a-hill]

Your old provider was using the Entanet network that will have fewer users than the BT wholesale network. I know you think that 4ms is 'a jump', but it certainly isn't even remotely high and would be considered a premium connection to game servers (living in Scotland, 14-20ms would be heaven :P). I believe most Entanet based ISP's have fastpath in place to give the shortest route to a server, I don't believe residential supply this so you may see comparative results as to what you're seeing here... there's just no way to guarantee that it would be better.