Why pay so much

[Douzeper]

Someone explain why I pay the same as someone that gets over 8MB download and I only get 1.5MB on a good day?

[a-hill]

Every ISP will charge a fixed amount per package regardless of the speed you get on said package, is there any reason you've singled out BT for this since this is a national standard? ADSL as a technology is limited by line noise, quality, distance from the exchange, VP saturation etc. ADSL wasn't invented by BT, and therefore it's limitations as a technology aren't BT's fault either. Regardless of the speed you get, the same work for provision is given to someone on a 1mb line compared someone on an 8mb line.

[Douzeper]

I have singled out BT because its BT that takes my money!

" We did not invent ADSL so its not our fault its rubbish" what sort of explanation is that?

 "Every ISP charges the same way" so that makes it right?

 If I buy a ferrari and it does the same speed as a 1.0 Fiesta I think I would have cause for complaint, so the same applies to my broadband connection,  charges are applied for data throughput, if someone is downloading at 8 times the speed of me it stands to reason they can download a lot more and do a lot more with their connection, so in turn they use more data which costs BT more, hence why I should pay less. 

  I am sure you are aware of the increasing campaigns run by the likes of channel5 to get this changed, you should pay for what speed you get.

 BT sales encourage to upgrade to 20MB (megabits, not bytes that most people think, clever marketing ploy) but all this does is make you sign for a new contract it does not give anyone a faster speed as if you couldn't get the "up to 8meg" speed that is nearly impossible to achieve, there is no way a regrade would make it faster.

 I am on a "up to 20megabits" account and pay for that yet get 1.5megabits on a good day, and you justify that by telling me its not BT's fault? would you like me to ring British Gas to see if they can help?

[a-hill]

At this point I should express that these opinions are my own and do not represent that of BT etc. etc. etc. etc.

"We did not invent ADSL so its not our fault its rubbish" what sort of explanation is that?

A very good one, who do you say is to blame for the degradation of performance due to where you are from the exchange? Should we maybe reinvent the law of physics and just remove signal loss and degradation over distance... or is the fact BT didn't invent physics a poor excuse as well? 

"Every ISP charges the same way" so that makes it right?

No, but it makes your singling out unjust, you're ranting as if it's only BT that do this when it's clearly not, and giving the impression that it is just them is naive. I also think you're under the impression that it's BT Business Broadband as an ISP that have this pricing format, when in fact everything is governed by BT Wholesale who, regardless as the name suggests, have absolutely nothing to do BT ISP's except in purely name. What I'm saying is, you're shouting at the wrong crowd. ALL ISP's are held under the same rules, regs and charges from Wholesale, and no BT ISP gets any different treatment from any other ISP as it's simply not allowed.

If I buy a ferrari and it does the same speed as a 1.0 Fiesta I think I would have cause for complaint, so the same applies to my broadband connection,  charges are applied for data throughput, if someone is downloading at 8 times the speed of me it stands to reason they can download a lot more and do a lot more with their connection, so in turn they use more data which costs BT more, hence why I should pay less. 

You didn't buy a ferarri, you bought broadband, you're blatantly pulling an analogy that helps fit you're argument rather than bringing something realistic to the table... but hey lets build on your analogy. My ferarri still has parts, running costs, tax, fuel and duty, maintenance, upkeep and servicing as everyone else with the same ferarri, but I use mine on poor roads. If I buy a ferarri but I live in the countryside with bumpy dirt roads, i cant drive it as fast because of where I am, should i still have to pay the same as someone who lives in a better built area with better roads cos they can drive faster? Is that ferarri's fault my roads are crap? I have the same Fuel Usage Policy as the person in the city, but he'll use his quicker... but at the end of the day we use the same amount, he just gets there quicker. Point being... it's very easy to make an analogy fit your argument, that's why I tend to stay away from their bias. You are all bound by the same T&C's and fair usage policy, so no they don't use 'more' data, they use the same data quicker, hence the reason for having a FUP in place.

BT sales encourage to upgrade to 20MB (megabits, not bytes that most people think, clever marketing ploy) but all this does is make you sign for a new contract it does not give anyone a faster speed as if you couldn't get the "up to 8meg" speed that is nearly impossible to achieve, there is no way a regrade would make it faster.

I can agree with your here, I believe ofcom also made a ruling that ALL broadband providers (not just BT) have to start advertising realistic speeds rather than theoretical and word-play.

 I am on a "up to 20megabits" account and pay for that yet get 1.5megabits on a good day, and you justify that by telling me its not BT's fault? would you like me to ring British Gas to see if they can help?

A nice twist of words, ill give you that. I said the limitations of the technology are not BT's fault (please explain how this could be?), I never mentioned the pricing. Considering data charges aren't the choice of the ISP, I will say it's not any ISP's fault that they have to blanket charge for every customer... if it was down to the individual ISP's, you wouldn't see this.

Again your rants are pointed in the wrong direction, and as justified as they may be, shouting at the wrong person wont wield any results.

[Douzeper]

All very good and interesting points, you cannot expect and there is no way I was to know that BT Wholesale are a different "crowd", and there is no way I am to know how pricing structure works, all I want to know is if I am receiving the best possible service and speed as I hand over my hard earned cash to BT.  I can now make better complaints as I now have a small amount of understanding of who to complain to, despite the fact I shouldn't feel the need to complain in the first instance............ Love the analogy of the analogy and it makes sense, it doesn't make me happy and it doesn't make my broadband any faster, it does however explain that BT Broadband are not responsible for how much I pay but another BT department is, and they are governed by someone else along the line and are who in turn governed by someone else...........   I don't care how BT works, I want the best value for money I can possibly receive.

 As you have said I was "ranting" I'll explain....

   The main problem with BT whether it be Wholesales fault, TEch Supports fault or the ISP's Fault, or whatever other company is hidden away under the banner of "BT" is the shere anger and frustration that is gained from contacting them.

  The amount of telephone numbers I have been given over the last two years to contact employee's of BT with a "this will get you straight through to me" comment, and then when I ring it its something/someone entirely different.  The amount of times a BT employee has said they will return my call after they investigate and never do, the amount of times I get moved from person to person and then get a dial up tone after waiting for ages, the amount of times....... I could go on.

 Its the frustration of running a business and trying to just makes things work that should work, every thing has problems but its how they are dealt with that reassures your faith in a business, my expierence with BT and others that post on here is diabolical, whether that should be aimed at you or six other departments who knows.   So I/we are left frustrated hence we reach for other mediums such as these forums to, as you put it, "rant".  I believe I have every right as a paying BT business customer, to complain if the service is not up to my expectations.  After all I cannot vote with my feet and leave (yet)as I am under a contract.

  I like your points, and I am glad you took the time to reply.  But "ranting" at BT is the only way to get things done, unfortunately I am not privvy to the workings of BT and all their sperate departments, so not pointing the anger at the right department is out of my control.

 Take for instance my phone calls about my VOIP service, promised returned calls but nothing, so I turn to here and post in a frustrated manner and receive a reply back and a nice phone call this morning, I shouldn't have to spend all this time complaining at BT I should pay for a service that works and one which lets me get one with my business.

  Good to read what you wrote about the pricing structure and if my "rant" was aimed at the wrong people I make no apologies as I am driven to "rant" by the poor service I receive.  Is it not British culture to complain anyhow? 🙂

I hope this pricing structure changes, judging by the campaigns that are going on things should change, perhaps BT as the biggest Telecom? should change things as soon as they can and take the lead with pricing, but I would think that "other" company BT Wholesale will be only to glad to keep raking in the money despite what speed/service its customers receive.

[a-hill]

Well this is an entirely different point you're making now, your question was why do you pay the same for 1.5mb as those that pay for faster... when really you're upset at the standard of service you've received and the speed is the trigger. I'd also like to point out that the flat fee pricing system is not just restricted to the UK, from what I can tell, DSL providers in a lot countries operate this way... you pay the same amount for the package as everyone, regardless of the speed you get on that package (I spoke to a few EU/US friends online and their DSL providers work this way as well).

As to the quality of support you've received, yes I agree it's definitely not up to scratch... but in all honesty I wasn't aware that this was really what we were discussing.